Interview with Skyla S. Hearn
April 28, 2023
L J: I’m so happy that you’re here with me today and that you’re able to talk with me about your career path, your professional journey. So, I guess to start, if you could just tell me a little bit about your background.
SkylaH.: Okay. I don’t know why that always makes me nervous. It does.
L J: Well…because words, we know, have power. And you know, like many of us, want to misrepresent or misspeak yourself. I know you know who you are?
SkylaH.: Oh yeah, Of course. Okay. Well, good morning and thank you, Leslie, for thinking this through, and also putting us in a place where we can talk with each other, and also document ourselves, which I think is so incredibly important especially during a time with all of this heightened awareness about the excellence, presence and brilliance of Black women. I’m Like this has always been the case, that we’re here and brilliant and beautiful and so much more but that more than anything, and of course including all of this, I just think that especially at this juncture in history it is very important that we provide documentation of our existence with emphasis on our holistic experiences.
Of course, starting with who we are, our origin stories are most important to me, which begins for me, as you know as Black people and in this case most specifically as Black women, partners, parents, professionals, right? But then also thinking about our larger community of people of color, people who as you know, are representative of groups that are not, heteronormative cis-gendered monied white—the ones initially thought of as people who compose a hegemonic group. We are even seeing a shift in how this viewpoint is shifting. But getting back on topic, my whole point here is thinking about people who are considered in the margins—Black, Indigenous, People of Color, people with disabilities and others—like all of the rest of us.
L J: Yeah, It’s a much bigger tent now.
SkylaH.: So, who I am, I am Skyla Hearn. I am many things in one body. Many representations from one source. I guess I’m thinking about the answer to your question in a lot of different ways. I am an Information professional, parent, partner, friend, and you know, a proud daughter of the Great Migration. I love to say that I like to think that I make my family, more specifically the ones that reared me—my mother and my grandmother—proud by just being who I am, a representative of my people; but as it pertains to work—my vocation is that of an archivist.
I believe that how I conduct my work as an archivist is different because I represent like few in the field, a hybridity. One that I think that people who have from the strongest understanding of archives to budding thoughts of what archives, archivists, archiving is—don’t tend to see all of who it is that we are, and all of what it is that we can encompass as archivists. So people tend to do things like divvy up your role, “and/or” you, simplify your significance and categorize your work for instance like, you’re an institutional archivist or a community archivist or a processing archivist, etc. And I like to think that I became a representative of that hybridity, because I started my career as a person being trained to be a community archivist by institutional archivists but the connection with community preceded the formal training. The combined background prepared me as someone to work with truly diverse individuals, community groups, smaller groups, churches (and other religious and spiritual gathering places and people), representations of various ethnic backgrounds and cultural identities, thinking about personal archiving, etc..
But also trained in a way where I’m also thinking about consideration of policy development and how the language exists within documentation that supports institutions, and how institutions gather information, and how it then represents that particular infrastructure; and how the collections are used or not used, the creators are represented or not—all of that good stuff.
My position in institutions, this current job in particular is one of privilege. My entry way into the vocation as an archivist is one of privilege. I make this point because what I have learned over the years is that a lot of people don’t have the opportunity to start their careers by way of completing an interdisciplinary practicum, multiple paid internships, assistantships, and fellowships during undergraduate and graduate studies; and as an emerging professional directly out of graduate school. This is literally how my career as an archivist began. I guess all of those early, early years of collecting, caring for my “treasures” and talking to anyone who would listen about it all were the impetus for leading me here. I was practically an archivist before I knew I was an archivist!
L J: When you talk about being an archivist, and it’s very much the same with librarianship, people may think, archivist, okay, derivative of archives. And when they think of archives they think of one thing. They think that it’s just files, like vertical files, documents, pictures and boxes. I don’t get the sense that people ever stop to consider, or that because they know so little about what an archivist does, and what archiving is, what it looks like. Some people may not have that kind of base, basic understanding or the language that lends itself to true understanding of what you mean when you refer to a community archive or community.
SkylaH.: Well, I mean, yeah and there is the part, it’s twofold, because I think that now a lot of archivists who are trained, credentialed with years of experience, doing the work; and from a liberated perspective—as in my case and those that I’m aligned with—are implementing person-centered approaches to archiving, which focuses on simply put–the people, the community or communities, partially lifting the emphasis placed on objects and instead directing more importance on the people who created the objects, the experiences, the evidence. I have to differentiate here by stating that this is not the practice of all archivists, there are still archivists who believe that archives should be neutral, and that somehow in a void the objects should speak for themselves, etc. How oxymoronic.
Back to your question, I think that we’re now in a position where we’re doing a better job of informing and educating people about archives, the work of archivists and archiving especially over the last three years of operating in live digital spaces during the COVID pandemic. We were really able to engage multiple audiences and provide clear entryways into the “wonderful world of archival work” as archivists. Whereas before people were just like you’re an arch-a-what?!? And this response has been a recurring theme for years. Honestly, I find it fun to have a niche vocation.
I’ve been practicing professionally and in service at this point for a little bit over a decade. I mean I’ve been doing the work for about 15 years or so, but as a credential archivist, it’s been a little bit over a decade. And I do believe that this differentiation needs to be made, and it’s not necessarily from an elitist position but one that supports the understanding of archiving as a profession—there’s layers to this, which includes the science of our profession.
L J: So, you believe that there is more awareness today than there was previously?
SkylaH.: Sure do, and there is that part where there’s still more that needs to be done. We have to do our job, we have to do our due diligence to educate, and also bring people in to grasp the understanding that there are multiple capacities at which people carry out these roles and responsibilities; how they intersect and are intertwined; and sometimes all done in a concurrent fashion. If I were to think about my journey as this linear piece of long thread, starting from assistantship experiences and all these years later to being in a position of leadership there’s all of the in between that provides the pathway, so that all the experiences along the way are substantial and not minimized or misrepresented such as mentioned before as being a processing, an institutional, community archivist, a subject expertise archivist “and/but” or and/all—developing those niche skills within the field and doing the work.
That’s my background. I’ve been very intentional about who it is that I am, and what it is that I do and where it is that I want to work basically how I show up. I make no qualms about it. I am a Black archivist, who is mostly interested in increasing and preserving the cultural and political experiences of Black people. We can always use synonymous terms here such as African, African American people, or people of the African diaspora. We know/I know from the perspective of being a Black person and growing up and seeing how I’ve or my perceived likeness has historically been placed or my people have been placed or not placed within causes me to directly confront these issues. And what better way to do so than as an information professional? Taking a harder look or open critique on visual imagery, audio files, television shows, all of that, and directly confronting the misinformation, misrepresentation, lack of existence and even the attempt at erasure.
L J: Right, let’s not forget one of the most important roles of archives and archiving, preservation, right? Right.
SkylaH.: Right. I would definitely say that–with preservation is the direct confrontation to the attempt at erasure. So, I’m very intentional about that. And because I understand all of that as a Black person I also understand that as it relates to other ethnic groups and cultural groups who are not represented within the same regards of respect and proper representation, and thinking about ways to include all of us, and especially now.
By thinking about policies, guidelines, best practices that we create, and what the best practices actually are as they relate directly to the systems and infrastructure of the people, movements, organizations and institutions that we represent in our work as archivists. I don’t think best practices are necessarily streamlined in a way where they’re the same, because we understand that they are directly related to the places where we are but we need to consider developing systems to provide ways where they’re reflective of the same types of practices and behaviors within the places where we work.
L J: And that they facilitate the work. That they allow you to do that work.
SkylaH.: Mmm hmm, mmm hmm, exactly! My career thus far has been very rewarding.
L J: Before you continue, I want to say thank you for your work. Obviously, I think it’s important that’s why I wanted you to represent this entry on “Career Path/Journey”. I know you think it’s important. That’s why you’re doing it, this work. I’ll just leave it at that, it’s very important work. I so appreciate that you have the wherewithal to do it, that you enjoy it, and that you take pride in doing it.
L J: In the jobs that you’ve had, you have worked at all levels within your career, in this journey that you’re on. I felt like you were about to go into what gave you the most satisfaction, so if you could go on with that and tell me about what gives you the most satisfaction about the work that you do?
SkylaH.: I mean, it’s multiple things. First, I have to start with relationships. The relationships that I’ve been able to create and foster. For me, that’s really what it’s about, you know, because I think that I came into the profession from a different perspective than a lot of other people, which I’ve shared as a generality. Most importantly, it’s the feeling of what I do. It’s the nostalgia that’s associated with the objects that brought me to this place, being able to sit with the elders and the community members and in all the regards that the work has not necessarily been fortified in a traditional way. I live for the untraditional! But that’s, the “traditional” I’m speaking of, is rooted in a lot of other areas of biases that are implemented into the practices and protected under the auspices of tradition and touted as historical, which is overwhelmingly problematic. For example, who gets to decide what is an acceptable piece of evidence, and of which people and then how the evidence is managed and activated [is the evidence collected/preserved]?
L J: What has value?
SkylaH.: Exactly! Who gets to establish what has value? Thank you. Exactly that. So, for me, a lot of the reward has simply been just being in places where I’ve been able to connect with people—from the descendant communities with whom I’ve collaborated with to those who have hired me to work with them on different projects or working with people who really understood the value of having someone from the same ethnic group, same cultural, political background to support their archival projects. Working with them to represent the collections that they were in pursuit of establishing and/or providing the “co-piloting” support to ensure the archives-adjacent practices they are implementing are stewarding their collections safely.
There’s that piece, and the other part is, I’m Chicago. I am a Chicagoan. We are all so proud to be “Chicago”. I love to say this too…I feel connected to everyone. Chicagoans are connectors. We network, you know. The truth of the matter is, no matter what your background is, or what side of the city you live on, we are Chicago all day, all of us. And all of this builds the value of understanding of how we formed–the stronger the historical narratives the better chances we have to understanding our collective identity.
I speak with 3 quarters of a glass full, I’m very positive. So that’s the angle that you know i’m bringing. The most rewarding aspects of the work are the relationships, and then what develops after that. I’ve been in a lot of spaces with a lot of people…and it has been really rewarding to the point where those relationships are still intact. We can reach out to one another and know the action will not be in vain.
One of my first positions as a graduate student program coordinator before graduating with my MLIS was with the University of Chicago, it was a collaboration with the South Side Community Art Center. As an aside, well two actually, I was a UIUC GSLIS* graduate student; and I will add that this partnership between the South Side Community Art Center Executive Director/Board of Trustees and the University of Chicago Art History department/Art History Professor was truly a reciprocal collaborative partnership, which speaks to the ability of the two organizations one with abundant resources to work equitably with a lesser resourced but equally established and important organization to bring a meaningful, impactful and sustainable program into fruition. I still have a very strong relationship with the folks at the Art Center and the collaborative partners who have become close friends and professional colleagues since that initial experience. I’ve seen a change of hands in leadership over the years at the Art Center. I’ve known all four of those Executive Directors, from the time that my relationship with the center started. With the University of Chicago representative at that time, I’ve seen them transition universities, supported additional archiving projects, exhibitions, etc. The same with donors, especially the Elders. It’s a gift to be accepted by them and even more meaningful to be allowed to remain in contact.
Leading up to this point, working for the County—And no, it’s not directly representing one particular group—but has the ability to broaden my understanding of who is not represented in historical narratives and to correct historical records, and to broaden the ways that I think about connecting with people across Cook County, to widening the understanding of the development of the Cook County government structure and to and apply all of my skills and talents.
SkylaH.: We have to think about ways that we’re able to branch out as professionals, and especially when we’re holding that part where we’re trying to work from a place of objectivity in order to do the work. Not neutrality, which again is not the same thing. We have to navigate how we’re thinking about best representing non-active historical records in a way where people can find information and then develop knowledge production that we need. My goal includes creating a more just society. This is one of the ways I think we can get there.
L J: From that work.
SkylaH.: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.
L J: This is great. So, I wanted to go to the next question, which I think you again have segued perfectly into. When did you know what you wanted for yourself and the career you were working on?
SkylaH.: I knew when I was in undergrad. It’s weird, right? It is. It was like a weird discovery. Right? We love to say discovery. But it really was because at the time I was working as an undergrad student worker on the student led Saluki newspaper at Southern Illinois University (SIU) in Carbondale; and was a nontraditional student. I kind of love the nontraditional term in and of itself. It refutes so much, it refutes oppression, racism, historical erasure, all of that. Nontraditional, in my mind’s eye, refutes historical, which is the background to my previous statement. But in this instance, being a nontraditional student…
L J: I just want to add to that this lack of understanding of where children come from, which should not be something hard for any adult to have to imagine. Everyone’s journey is a different one. That you find yourself on that path at different times in life, to be labeled a nontraditional student, because you didn’t go to college straight from high school or because you’re a parent is not very enlightened. Most people in the US don’t take gap years. Not everyone is going to travel the same path and go right into undergrad upon finishing high school.
SkylaH.: Yeah, that’s true. But my experience is a little bit different. Just thinking about the terminology, nontraditional, the umbrella encompasses way too many different types of people as you said. I did enter college immediately after graduating high school and out of rebellion from not being aloud a gap year, although at the time I didn’t have the language to express to my family what I wanted to do other than to directly inform them that I wanted to travel to all the places my close high school friend’s families were from for a year then go to university. Needless to say they didn’t hear of it so I went to a local university and moved into my first apartment. It was years later that after “living life” enjoying my young adulthood and all the things that I made the hard choice to take my very young children to rural Illinois to complete a Bachelor’s degree.
L J: It’s just my point. Is anyone that’s not 18-22 years old.
SkylaH.: Exactly. And so in my particular situation, I decided to complete my bachelor’s degree with my 2 children, right there with me. I wasn’t that much older than the other students, but I felt like I was light years ahead…I went down to Carbondale with very strong intentions to graduate with a degree and move on with my life.
L J: I hear the same thing from people that are taking advantage of the G. I. Bill, like once you’ve been deployed or even if you’ve finished Boot camp, you’re just in a different place than someone who just graduated from high school, and maybe has never even worked a job before.
SkylaH.: True. And you know my whole thing at the time was well. I’m going to become a speech language pathologist. I selected SIUC because they had one of the top programs in the country at the time, and I had prior experience of working with children who were differently abled including ones who benefitted from being serviced by speech language pathologists. I assisted the children and was the office manager of the health club geared towards their needs. I did this type of work connecting with the children, their parents and the medical practitioners for a year or so. The owner of the health club was truly unique and ran her organization under a mission to primarily service the Black community. So I was like, oh, this is it for me. I just knew that was my path. I started the academic journey geared up and made it through the first semester then realized, I mean it was a hard reality, that the three of us were living in rural Illinois. I mean it was Carbondale! And we all took a hard look at each other and our surroundings. We were thinking about how long we really wanted to be there. My children were really young and in sync with me and their lived environment.
It was culture shock. We had lives that and had been doing things in the city. We were metropolitan, going to cultural outings to exhibits, music shows and performances, all different kinds of engagements. We were travelers. So, back to making it work in Carbondale, I took a managerial job at the college, the student run newspaper. I felt like I was parenting these other adults who really weren’t that much younger than me. And I was like, yeah, this is for the birds. I saw the posting within special collections and archives at the Morris Library for a Digital Archives Assistant. More than anything, what spoke to me was working with photographs. I didn’t know anything about archives and had limited knowledge of special collections. I quickly became enthralled with all of it including some of the characters who worked in the archives. So, needless to say, around that time I was transitioning out of the study for speech language pathology and into a field I had more previous experience, talent and interest, which was photography and because we were ready to go back to Chicago.
In figuring out how I could consolidate my associate degree and additional credits I’d accumulated, I was like, oh, okay, photography I already know you old friend, let’s make this happen. Let me learn the jargon and technical skills, become more formally trained in photography, which also led me into another area of study I’m passionate about, Black American Studies. So then, I switched majors and joined the College of Communications to complete a bachelors in Mass Communications and Media Arts, Cinematography and Photography with a minor in Black American Studies. I worked in the archives throughout my academic tenure at SIUC and loved it!
During that time, after being hired for the position with special collections and archives I worked with two collections that spoke volumes to me. The first was Caresse Crosby (born Mary Phelps Jacob) and then the ultimate game changing collection, Katherine Dunham. Caresse Crosby developed the design for the brazier. She was a really eclectic person, had artist friends like Salvador Dali and became an expatriate. It was hers and Katherine Dunham’s photograph collections that told me what I needed to understand about the beautifully complicated lives of women of a particular background and who were determined to be their own person. But like I said it was really Katherine Dunham that put me on the scene.
Katherine Dunham’s daughter, Marie-Christine Pratt, donated her collection of photographs and papers to the archives because Katherine Dunham taught at SIU in Edwardsville. It was that collection that ushered me into archives. I had no idea, and like what you just mentioned before about those pathways, and taking a hard look at the question of what is the right path for me, or how is it right in terms of our entry point, and thinking about how do we get there?
This experience was my entry and impetus into the wonderful world of archives is how I love to put it, and also being in a position like that as a practitioner and early thought leader thinking through digital preservation and digitization–that’s what we were doing back then in 2006! Consider it, we’re still grappling with some of the same issues and challenges in the field. Digitizing collections, metadata, tagging and keywords, representation…
L J: Making things discoverable. So that people can use these items.
SkylaH.: Yes, that and in addition to preservation and discoverability, but now also through radical approaches and through a social justice lens.
And connected to my overall experience of being a young Black mom, non-traditional student, working in the archives and isolated from my “comfort zone” was the experience of working closely with the University archivist at the time who was also a young Black woman, Leah Agne. She may not be aware of how instrumental it was and has been to me that she was the person who modeled myriad understanding of archival work; and the level of professionalism, talent and brilliance as a woman of color in a predominantly white field. The fact that I worked with Leah, alone, is a very different entryway into the profession and very different than a lot of people, because we, as people of color and other groups considered marginalized make up less than 20%. I’m positive that back then it was less than that.
So, imagine entering into the library and science (archival management) field and being mentored and led under the very strong and wonderful leadership of this Black woman at a university archive. And working on a collection which focuses on the lifetime of this incredible Black woman, Katherine Dunham. That’s how I came into the field. Just thinking about my own personal connections at the time, being a young mom in this place with these 2 little children. Having a lot of respect and adoration for my own upbringing of being reared by two Black women, my mother and my grandmother brought it all full circle. I found myself in the archives. Wow!
And in the context of the university setting to also learn how information exists and how it is cared for. Oftentimes information is firewalled within institutions, which poses questions and leaves those unaffiliated wondering or completely unknowing about all of this valuable information. As an archivist, I respond to the duty to address the questions of who knows about this information? And how do we get it out there? And so again, rounding back to thinking about the practical and technical aspects, thinking about accessibility, availability and the importance of working on digital projects to make information available to the public.
So there all of these connectors for me. Even with the project that I worked on that I mentioned before with the University of Chicago collaborating with the South Side Community Arts Center, now that being a private institution, even that information which is co-managed is accessible to the public. I’m very intentional about the work that I do. Representation, thinking about the partnered communities that are working with these, often contentious institutions.
I think this throughout all of my positions, but also with project work that is related to the field, because we think in terms of being in service in all the different ways that we do that. So, of course there’s the daily functional work and our responsibilities. But then, also thinking about work at an advisory capacity, representation on boards and so forth.
L J: Okay, so with that, can you tell me a bit more about what you are working on currently?
L J: Are you making a plan to try to level up? Are you wrapping things up in your current position through succession planning? What kind of things are your priority currently?
SkylaH.: Hmm. Well, where do I start? I josh a little when I say this as I am led with more than a grain (of salt) by the zodiac and believe in astrology. I think of myself as the quintessential Sagittarian with one foot in the door, and one foot out simultaneously no matter which door and threshold I’m stepping across, from or into. I’m cognizant to consider all of the actions that got me to this current moment, point, in the present while also considering the past and future. You think of what happens once you completely pass the threshold and both feet are on the same side then pose the necessary questions: Which side is that? How did you get there? And then what did you leave behind, and how did you leave things when you left them behind? What are you looking to do as you advance toward the future? What’s in front of you? And so, I say all that to say that no matter what the position is when you start it, you should start thinking about how you’ll leave it. I think it’s important to develop a strategic plan that outlines anywhere from 3 to 5 years of the goals, vision, and deliverables; and should include a succession plan especially if the position is one that encompasses management of policies as well as projects—all of this is needed to ensure the sustainability of the archives program and to protect your intellectual and physical work product while an asset at the organization. It’s smart to conduct an initial assessment when starting the job then a year later combine information to then better inform the processes in moving forward.
This is an example of the difference between archiving and simply gathering things then putting them somewhere. The true practice of archiving includes thinking about and implementing plans for sustainability and practices that are related to establishing a successful program. And so again a good practice is to consider and develop a succession plan.
L J: What I’m hearing is that it’s always in mind, whenever you begin a project or start a position. It’s always a long-term kind of planning.
SkylaH.: It definitely should be.
L J: If you’re doing it right.
SkylaH.: Exactly. There’s no point of wasting resources, and I put time at the top of the list of those resources. Time, intellectual contributions, money, and so on. There’s always the idea of what will this look like once I’m no longer here? The documentation to outline and express such ideas should begin right away. So of course, I’m developing a succession plan in my current role. No one knows what’s gonna happen but you plan for the outcome you want to see anyway. Create that historical evidence!
L J: Have some kind of plan in place for your successor. It’s the decent thing to do.
SkylaH.: I’d just like to say that my current role as an inaugural position aside from it being all new. This role also reflects a new thinking that has been enveloped by a higher level of local politics. Meaning that no one within this structure of a governing body has thought to create an archives program. I took it a step further to aid in the understanding that the role needed to be fulfilled by an archivist not a historian or a curator—efforts executed by a practitioner could only yield a successful program. OVerall rewarding but realistically the role has its daunting responsibilities with having to educate on the impact and importance of all this role does encompass. And so I am not having to necessarily re-imagine, but to imagine, when I’m able to daydream a little bit about what it is that I think that this should be and then implement the dream. So, of course, this includes the fun like creating a collection development, all of the guidelines to support access and availability, and my favorite is the activation of the materials… and of course just thinking about all of the ways in which to get people to work in this very reciprocal and collaborative way to get it all done.
L J: Right.
SkylaH.: And, again, implementing things that historically as a non-traditionalist, things that really haven’t been thought of, like, radical empathy within the workplace, ethics of care within the workplace, looking at the development of archival collections from a person-centered perspective, not from an object based perspective. All of those factors. That’s the role that I’m currently in. And I think for me, I’ve made it a scalable type of job by simply developing the framework that’s needed in order to create an archive program. If my successor pays attention, which no doubt they will, the steps will be intuitive and provide a clear pathway for the implementation of a successful program.
Doing so involves a broader look at what the archive is versus focusing on just a couple of different areas of how to manage an archive. But questions of, How do you establish a program? Also, who are the key players? How do you keep those things intact in a way where the work is scalable.
Creating processes and documentation in a way that communicates all of this, intuitively for people once you’re gone. How do you create that documentation? All of this is a priority for me within my current position. And I believe that when it’s avoidable no one should have to start “from scratch” or more familiarly “reinvent the wheel”.
L J: Of course…making it known, what it is and what it’s meant to be especially if you’re starting out at ground zero. You’re creating all of this as you complete your work, no?
SkylaH.: That’s exactly what has happened. I had to start at ground zero unbeknownst to me. I thought that I was starting from a place where things had been established, but they had not been established. Sometimes you have to learn the mastery of decoding, navigating the culture of the institution and the importance of fostering work relationships to differentiate between the terminology that is given to you, the roles and responsibilities you are able to fulfill and the mission of the organization. I’ve learned in this role, that you have to first establish something and then develop it.
L J: Exactly. Development of a process/procedure cannot proceed the establishment of the process/procedure. And if nothing has been documented then nothing has been established.
SkylaH.: Yes, exactly. That’s how that works. This all stems from my institutional work.
In terms of my community work with the focus on the collective that we’ve co-founded as the Blackivists and strongly considering how we will continue to support our community and move forward as community stewards. Right now, we’re finishing up our two-year grant with our partner and friends, Sixty Inches from Center with the ‘Diamond In The Back’ (Diamond in the Back: Excavating Chicago’s Black Cultural and Material Heritage) grant. As a result of being awarded the grant we have been able to work with multiple groups over the two years, to help preserve their information, and from the ground level for the most part. There is only one partner who decided to donate their materials to an institution while all the others want to keep the materials and the work within the communities where they were created. I believe that speaks volumes in so many different ways, on everyone’s part, which is absolutely amazing, right?
L J: Right.
SkylaH.: Tne particular group felt that it would be overwhelming to manage such a massive body of materials and did not want to be personally responsible for the ongoing care of the materials. They really wanted the collection to go to a respectful, responsible and trusted organization where the materials would be stewarded correctly, and access would be provided to them.
L J: We know how people are about ownership. People don’t want to always give something away if they don’t know what it is. They may have concerns, and I think more so now than ever people are far more aware that they could be giving away something that is of great value or something that has far more intrinsic value to their community. Therefore, it could benefit the people in that community best.
Skyla, I love that you articulated that as an archivist, what you do, what archivists do is that you say what something is and by doing so you give it meaning so that people know what it’s supposed to be used for, so they know where it is and can then use it. Then they can understand why it’s worth preserving. Right like it’s not just preservation. It’s not just kind of saving something or putting it to the side as a collector. No, it’s telling an audience this is here, just in case someone wants to use it.
Archivists give name and meaning to things. By doing this you all give value to things so that people say, oh, okay this collection exists that I could use for documentary footage, or that in a specific community has this collection and they’ve been working on archiving and inventorying, which makes things accessible, which is so important.
SkylaH.: Also I think that it sheds light on the people who are doing this work. People have to be compensated beyond a livable wage for this highly skilled work that brings great values to our lives.
L J: Say it!
SkylaH: It is all of that. Pulling all of that into the conversation—with the focus on the relationships between the practitioners. Because in these roles, the ‘Diamond In The Back’ grant, for example, we all have been practitioners. We all have been a co-pilot. We understand that we’re coming with the formal training, the credentials and all that is required to do this work in a sustainable way. But that doesn’t mean that we’re the expert on how our partners envision ongoing care for their collections. It doesn’t mean that you know we are necessarily leading. It means that we’re supporting. And that’s what we’re there to do.
In that regard they’re [communities/community leaders] the ones who are informing on the value of what their materials are. And so, the perspective we are focused on is the intrinsic value, but then there’s another part that’s real, which is the fiscal value. What are archival materials appraised for? In some cases, people are and want to be paid for their collections.
I believe that it all has to be an equitable process. Which is also where we come in because we’re providing ample resources, and it’s done in a way where we try to get this information out to everyone making information available and accessible. Understandably we can only do so much. There are limitations. We are not able to provide all professional services such as financial appraisals but we aid in preparation towards other additional goals.
Of course, during Covid all of our programs were conducted on Zoom. The transcripts, the recordings, the presentation decks were all made available on our website, and it’s publicly accessible. So, there’s no need for permissions, passwords or any special requests. The information is on the website, and we lead people directly to the site.
At the point when we knew we would not be able to be back in person, we reverted to using tools we were familiar with as we were doing this beforehand, you know conducting workshops within the community, and just trying to help people meet the need where they are, but also like trying to encourage folks to push past the short stops to avoid temporary solutions and to go for the long game, which would better provide closer steps towards long term care. But we work with people no matter where they are in their journey to preserve their valuable materials, for example, if all that you have are Jewel [grocery] bags we honor that as use what is shared to set a plan and put things in context like “okay, well, that’s better than just having things out in the open” but let’s get some polypropylene enclosures or acid free boxes to replace the grocery bags. Make a plan for obtaining the proper enclosures, which are archival supplies also while learning and implementing the methodology to use to preserve your collections, which are practices we prefer the “archives adjacent” community to envelope.
We want “archives adjacent” communities to implement processes in the same ways that we would. Even without the formal training there are years of experience of knowing the contributions and loving one’s materials represents similar dedication and passion driven work.
L J: And you all provide support for these groups on an ongoing basis? For instance, they just call you if they have questions or contact you to say “Okay, we’ve gotten to this point. Where do we go from here?”
SkylaH.: Basically, initially we provided “reference” services through word of mouth then later added a contact option on our website, which as a service was bustling before we became dedicated to our partners under “Diamond in the Back”. That’s initially how we started before being awarded the grant. When we went live announcing ourselves to the public through the internet—referring to our website becoming accessible, which was the same time of the global shutdown in March 2020.
We went live at the beginning of the month, and then, before you knew it, we were creating ways to support people who were active in various movements from different groups within the local community and then nationally. It just started right away. So with that through our email address folks began reaching out to us left and right. It was a powerful moment where we felt in tune, connected, in solidarity. There’s six of us, so we’ve split up the responsibilities to respond to all the requests with solid resources, with care, with empathy and with love; all while doing so and intentionally making no unilateral decisions. We are truly a collective, in all of what that means. We each took a shift on the “reference desk”, communicated via phone, email, text, and held monthly meetings to discuss how we address our community and then carry out their requests.
We were getting some really interesting requests. We turned some down, and we were proud of ourselves for it, because they were not aligned with our ethical practices.
These are the things that are on the forefront of my mind, and there are things that I would really like to do that I’m currently not doing. Referring back to your question. I’m an administrator. I am in a supervisory management position which limits my ability to actually be working in the collections and processing.
L J: Where you said that you miss the bench, you miss the practice of working in the field. You miss processing…say more about that.
SkylaH.: It’s where the magic happens. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t know if I could do a whole day of that working with materials of little interest. That would probably drive me nuts. But I do want to be in a position where at least, for like 4-6 hours within the day I am with the materials that ignite curiosity and inspire to draw others in. I’m about making the connections. The other component to this work is public programming. I also think about documentation especially through multiple publication platforms, and of course, activating the archives in myriad ways. I feel that I exist within this intersection where Arts, Archivea, and scholarship convene.
And that’s fine. I’m fine with that. I’m fine with the fact that I’ve cut myself out of a cloth that doesn’t cover us all, you know. That’s something I’ve become more comfortable with over the years being the prototype. Now I can provide the template. I was the only person in my cohort when I was in graduate school that was very clear on the fact that I was in graduate school to become an archivist. I had had previous experiences before applying to school, and also have been mentored into the profession by a professional archivist and a seasoned librarian.
My professional life has been really rich and rewarding in distinct ways. And very challenging. It’s not all sweet peaches. You know you have to determine what it is that you are going to do with your experiences, and how you will turn that into something that is most beneficial for you.
We can sit and drink sour juice all day, or we can sip on some sweet lemonade. Either way it goes, your body is getting the nutrients that it needs, because it needs vitamin C. How are you making it in a way where it is not only digestible and nutritious, but you know palatable, and enjoyable.
L J: Not just palatable, but also enjoyable. I believe that’s an excellent point. Thank you for coming up with that conclusion. Those are wise words, too many new grads and burgeoning young information professionals whenever the conversation turns to, “How did you get where you are today?” You can tell ‘em, “grit!”
[snickering]
L J: That leads to the final question I want to ask you.
What do you want your career to look like in the next 5 or 10 or 15 years?
SkylaH.: Hmm. Okay. Let me start by doing the math. How old will I be in 15 years? At this age do I want someone trying to tell me what to do? I don’t think so. It’s funny, because well, at my current age, and probably 15 years ago and 10 years from that and 5 years before that, I was already answering the question, who is the boss of me?
I had this professor who we really were enamored with who would ask in class, “who defines the terms by which you live?” Something to that effect. Right away I was like, I do. I mean, there was no question in my mind.
L J: It was an instinctual, natural answer.
SkylaH.: I do. Folks in the classroom were kind of like mulling it over and asking questions, “Well, what do you mean by that? I was like, no, it’s very clear…I do.
That’s from being reared in a way where I understand the word no, and what it means, but it doesn’t apply to me. So, I think 15 years from now I definitely see myself running or spearheading my own operation. I have very clear ideas of what it is that I want to do. Having to pivot from no longer working at the DuSable Museum, which is a position I would have retired from probably wouldn’t have been the best in terms of retirement benefits but in terms of working with the particular body of materials I wanted to steward I was most interested and engaged in. Evolving and moving onward into my current position I consider the benefit to be of a broader reach. I see myself creating and managing an information powerhouse repository and museum headquartered in a huge, beautiful chateauesque-style mansion
in a historic Black community, operating a research center, meaningful activations that are my own, independently led.
So, in 15 years I do see myself in a space similar to that and it being led by my own programs, projects and efforts; reciprocal collaborations with like-minded others I respect. I’ve been a part of a lot of other groups and a lot of wonderful opportunities. But I think about what I want to do with my time, and how I want to dedicate myself in the continuous way of my practices as a Black woman justice archivist.
I think in the shorter term, the 5 to 10 year span, especially in terms of institutional roles, developing a continuum of establishing strong archives programs such as in my current role for Cook County Government under President Preckwinkle. I think a lot about all of the amazing things that President Preckwinkle has done in her tenure as board president of the county that is inclusive of 134 municipalities with Chicago being the largest. I just think about how far ahead we could be as a society with clearer understanding of the importance of historical information, and placing that in a way where people are better learned about the society that they live within. I am convinced that institutions need me—and people like me.
These are my goals. I see it more like a 3-5-year plan per institution. Someone else can build out the next 5-10 and then go to 15. I don’t see myself at any one place for an extensive amount of time.
As far as I’m concerned, I just see myself on the continuum of doing this work and not necessarily based within an institutional structure. My focus is on ongoing development as a grounded professional person who contributes to the field; and as one who uplifts and supports others working in the same vein.
L J: And having to be aware of other people’s interests that you’re representing like stakeholders. You’ll always have people that are a part of, and that may be affiliated, or that you are working on behalf of, which makes them stakeholders. But when you are, as you said, working from your own impetus, based on your own interest, I believe you are already conscious of whether or not you’re fully representing appropriate interests because those interests are your interests.
SkylaH.: Yes, definitely, definitely. My friends, my colleagues, who are also my friends and I are always having these ongoing conversations. Thinking about different groups, different people, different collections. Of course, being based here in Chicago, but outside as well. Let’s get together. Let’s imagine how we can support this particular effort. Because there is no scarcity. Money is cyclical. It’s out there. Grab it, Use it. Reallocate it.
There’s no scarcity in collections that exist either. There’s always work to do. We’re constantly thinking about how to do it, when to do it, and what capacity we have to dedicate ourselves. We’re all very dedicated. We’re all very passionate. I feel fortunate. I really want to work and enjoy my work. I want to enjoy what I do and be paid well, compensated well for doing what I love. This is a vocation for me. It’s not just a job. I’ve talked about having a lot of jobs, but that was under the understanding that I was developing within a vocation.
L J: That’s great. Thank you for that. Thanks for bringing up compensation and that professionals, whether they be Archivist, Librarians or some other profession, all have the expectation (not hope) that they will be paid well for the work they do.
Well, I’m going to wrap up with your final words. I appreciate you being clear and considerate in providing details about your professional journey and your understanding of where you’re headed. I want to say thanks so much for the time. I so appreciate you being willing to provide details on your career path and what this professional journey has been for you, and the understanding that it is a continuum. You don’t get the job of your dreams and then there is a sense that oh, I can rest now.
SkylaH.: Rest is important. Yes, we should all rest, but you know, don’t stop. Thank you, Lesley.
working. 
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